545. Submissive Men: Too Many and Too Few

Over the years I have written numerous times about how submissive men vastly outnumber dominant women.  Over the years I have also read many accounts of dominant women stating that there are a shortage of submissive men.

Which one of these views is correct?   Both.

It is possible for both to be true based upon who gets counted in the submissive male population.

  • The “there are many submissive men” view results from counting those who are wanting to meet dominant women and make their presence known in some way (e.g. messages, social media traffic, etc.).
  • The “there are too few submissive men” view results from counting those who are willing to show up in person for a kink-related event (e.g. munch, play party, etc.).

Which census is the best representation of the submissive male population is something that can be debated with valid points on both side.

  • From the perspective of a submissive male, if 9,999 other male subs have written to a Domme and managed to bias her in a negative way with skepticism, hostility, etc. making it more difficult for me to be given a fair chance, I believe they should be included in the count.
  • From the perspective of a dominant woman, if 9,999 male subs write to her and she tells every single one of them, “If you want to meet me, please attend this munch,” and none of them ever show up, it is easy to see how they could stop believing that they are “real,” and write them all off as being pretenders.

The value in evaluating these perspectives is not in trying to decide which side is right, but looking at what can be learned from this.

The major conclusion that jumps out to me is this:  If you are a submissive male and are willing to show up somewhere, you have already separated yourself from the pack.

I think a better way of looking at it all is seeing the male submissive population as an iceberg:  while some of it is visible above the surface, over 90% of it is hidden under the water.  If you measure what you can see, it looks a lot smaller… but it is the hidden part that can sink the ship.

The more involved I get in helping organize a Femdom group’s events and parties, the more apparent the difficulties there are in simply getting submissive men to show up to something.  Our first party had 27 Dommes/tops/switches and 20 male subs/bottoms/switches/fetishists.  It wasn’t even a 1:1 ratio.  What should stand out from this is that if you are a sub male and willing to show up, you are already 3/4ths of the way there.

17 thoughts on “545. Submissive Men: Too Many and Too Few

    1. Thank you, Nora.

      I have a large number of theories on this. A lot of it stems to the stigma/shame aspect that many of them carry about being submissive. Many see their submission as a solitary, private thing and don’t want anyone except a Domme to see them as that.

      Fear of being “outed” tends to be another primary reason.

      Because a lot of sub men never receive any helpful feedback from the Dommes they message, a lot of them are completely clueless on how to behave around them and this can keep many of them too self-conscious from going. At a munch at a bar & grill, you most likely won’t be calling anyone by a title or acting submissive in any way aside from polite manners. A lot of people freak out about not knowing what to do.

      Often it’s a mix of things, but by and large, very few sub men will ever show up at anything, let alone more than once or twice.

      Even if they have no interest in public events, being willing to attend some of the basic, safer type events in order to meet a Domme… should be enough of a reason to go?

      Liked by 2 people

  1. Very glad you write and share. Thoughtful view, from all angles, on an interesting topic. “The value…is not in trying to decide which is right, but looking at what can be learned from this.” A powerful statement in any situation. Cheers.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. I believe there are a fair number of submissive men who aren’t submissive at all, but have a very particular fantasy they want me to create with them. If I stray outside the lines they’ve drawn, I either get ghosted (the nerve) or I get a strident reminder that this activity was listed in my Fetish list, and so it’s this activity they want to focus on. Can we get back to it, please Ma’am? Tell me about tying me up to the bed again, Ma’am. As if I’m reading a bedtime story. These men have submissive fantasies where they pull all the strings. They’ve written the play, and I must act my part. It frustrates me. Do you want an opportunity to serve me, or do you want to orchestrate what looks like submission while retaining all the power?

    Should these men be part of the 9,999 who write to me and “ruin it” for all submissive men? I actually think they’re a category of their own: Faux-submissive men.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. I agree with this particularly. I’m not discounting the submissive men out there but it seems that these “bedroom subs” are much more prevalent because of the fake persona. Even then they are still trying to top which throws the famous red flag. This isn’t easy on either side of the slash.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. It definitely is not.
        They do tend to tip their hand early. “Here’s what I want you to do to me…” = Bad. “What can I do for you?” = Good.

        The weird thing is that according to the way that BDSM negotiations are taught in the community, the “Here’s what I want you to do to me” should be okay, but reality dictates otherwise.

        Take care.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. “Here is what I want you to do to me” can be part of the negotiation. I absolutely want to know your fantasies, your fears, what turns you on and what makes you mad. How else do I know what will motivate you? It is the lack of “What can I do for you, Mistress?” that is the problem. That should be the first question.

          Liked by 2 people

        2. I agree with you that it is a useful part of negotiations. I should have been more clear that I meant that it doesn’t work well as an opening line (or something communicated inappropriately before they have reached a point of consideration/negotiations).

          Liked by 1 person

    2. Thank you for sharing. I think that the types you speak of are definitely a problem. My personal selfish side gets angry at them for making life harder for every other male sub and dominant seeking a sub.

      My empathy, sympathy, and analytic side thinks they are a product of the F/m world. My guess is that 99% of these types have very few if any real life experiences and are not able to present themselves in a way that will yield any. They may be ashamed of their submissive/fetish desires and only have the courage to reach out when they are turned on and fantasizing (when the desire becomes undeniable). Since they have rarely talked about it with anyone while in a rational frame of mind, they don’t recognize how what they are doing rubs dominants the wrong way (especially if what they want resembles the porn they watch and/or sessions they have paid for). As the way they go about it gets them ignored, blocked, etc. without explanation, they don’t ever really process that what they are doing is wrong. Also, if they have spent time around the M/f community and/or M/f resources, there is a strong chance they have misinterpreted some of the tenets and teachings to mean what they are doing is okay. I have to wonder that with the right type of influence, could they actually learn how to be the right type of sub?

      Still, a part of me wants to grab them, shake them, and shout at them, “Get a clue! You are ruining it for everyone else.” Fake or real, if the cumulative effects of them tip the scales for a Domme to where she expects everyone writing to her to be fake, that is a very significant impact.

      Take care.

      Liked by 3 people

  3. i’d love to attend fetish events, but:
    -there’s the fear of being outed (i might see someone that knows me)
    -i might be too old for the crowd (i’m in my 50’s)
    -i might not be good looking (i’m not lean and muscular)

    And maybe liken it to being a football fan: i love to watch the games and wear the colors, but there’s no way i’d be able to play if the coach put me in the game.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Each individual area differs in how things happen. I live in a state where BDSM is technically illegal, so 90% of the events happen at private homes and are vanilla dress until inside. Munches are all vanilla in appearance and happen at places like private rooms of restaurants, coffee shops, etc. because no one wants to be outed. If someone sees me walking into a bar & grill where a munch is being held, it doesn’t bother me since it’s just going into a restaurant. If I happen to run into someone I know from my vanilla life at a munch, then we have a little secret to share because I’m pretty certain they don’t want others to know either.

      Age and physical attractiveness are less of a factor than you might think. At our munch last night we had 2 male subs in their 70’s attend and another 4 that were 50-69. Having known them for a while, I know that they are able to find partners and have experiences because of their personality.

      I am aware that I would not have attended any munches or events without having friends to hand-hold me through the process. With that in mind, I am glad that I have been involved with things. I also do not do any type of public play at parties, so for me it is more like choosing to attend the football game in person rather than just watching it on TV. It allows you to connect with other fans, etc. even if you are no playing in the game itself.

      Take care.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. @furcissy I have to agree that the porn they watch and perhaps the Pro sessions they purchase train them to think this dynamic is 1. available, and 2. typical of F/m relationships. You state that unless they’ve read anything out there about F/m dynamics (and I assume FLR are included in that dynamic) and/or been in the community and have learned the actual tenets that they may not realize what Dommes are actually seeking. Like, you can’t know what you don’t know. And I get that. But I run into these types so often, I have to wonder if they really are submissive at all. I don’t think they want to give up power at all. I think they still want to maintain power & control over the women who “dominate” them. This, my giving them their own category. Just my two cents.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. 🙂
      Having a category for them is probably fitting. I think in a lot of ways they are bottoms that incorrectly use the term submissive. They know what they want to experience, but it doesn’t involve actual relinquishing of power.

      This is one of the areas where I find the M/f and F/m communities differ so greatly.

      Take care.


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